CodeBlueBlog: A Call To Arms --

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April 2005

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« Torter Costs: Don't Forget, Snapping Turtles Hide Under Rocks | Main | Grand Rounds Mad Today »

A Call To Arms --

... _ _ _ ...

I've picked up a blogosphere SOS.

Yesterday I posted a piece about the planned chiropractic college at FSU. Little did I know that there is a widespread rumore throughout the science and medical Internet regarding this academic TRAVESTY unfolding in Florida.

Essentially, a chiropractic legislator has rammed a project to build a state sponsored chiropractic college through the Florida legislature . The academicians and physicians at FSU -- where this alien is supposed to land -- are up in arms.

Several important sites around the net are taking up the cause and I urge you all to visit Chirobase, especially this article; The 2% Company; and, Rhosgobel: Radagast's Home has a synopsis.

FSUblius is a site almost totally dedicated to this topic. Pharyngula is at it, so is University Diaries and Confessions of a Quackbuster .

Chiropractery is one of those things society lets people do to one another because it is too much trouble to fend off anecdotes, lawyers, and venal congressmen... but everyone who is serious about science and medicine KNOWS it is just old fashioned BS ... a leftover of the snake oil days.

But we need to make a stand sometimes, and this is one of those times. We cannot let them INSTITUTIONALIZE this practice by allowing a state sponsored school of chiropractery to be built!

State Senator Jimmy King, who has been running the flying wedge through our legislative process with the chiropractic football had this to say:

``I don't think we should turn our back on people who want to become part of a profession that pays $90,000 a year.''

Well, Jim, strippers make more than that...should we open a school for ecdysiasts? How about hired killers and assassins -- they make a good wage. God knows we don't want to turn our backs on MONEY in Florida...it might DAMAGE our reputation!

Now Mr. King and certain legislative thugees are threatening bad things if the FSU professors are successful in blocking his little pet. Oh Boss Tweed be gone! Here's what FSUblius said:

Senator King denies that he is vindictive but has indicated (through the press) to faculty that the "Legislature will be angry" and that they should "evaluate with their department heads what kind of cuts there will have to be." Here is classic quote:
"Would I be disappointed? Yes," King said. "Am I going to be vindictive? No."

He added: "I'm a Scorpio. I'm much more subtle than that."

I would ask all science and medical bloggers to join in a general, Internet-wide protest against the state-supported QUACKERY as is being proposed in FLORIDA -- the same state that recently lured the Scripp's Institute on the basis that Florida was fecund ground for the growth of legitimate scientific enterprises...

There is no reputable body of peer-reviewed literature to support cracking backs as a valid medical treatment. How then can we allow this to continue? And how then can we allow the state to use our tax dollars to build colleges to teach students to use this unvalidated undocumented unscientific treatment?? How??

This is a call to arms.

Posted by Doctor CBB on January 06, 2005 at 04:05 PM | Permalink

Comments

I'm with you...

Posted by: dr. charles | January 07, 2005 at 08:45 AM

Yes--no one want to support chiropractors, but . . . aren't doctors using a double standard?

After all, if the standard for appropriate medical procedures, as Dr. Blue would have it, "peer-reviewed literature to support . . . valid medical treatment," how many currently (or recently) used/advocated medical procedures would stand the test? Routine tonsillectemies, routine episotemies, whatabout testicular self-examination (NO proof of effectiveness) And, while we're in the vicinity, how about Dr. Money at Johns Hopkins and his chopping of children's genitals on the basis of totally unsubstantiated medical gender theory? Is he still alive and in a comfortably tenured position at Johns Hopkins?

Doctors-- put your own house in order first, then start worrying about others.

Posted by: Tony Webern | January 08, 2005 at 06:54 PM

The same was tried at York University in Toronto. Looking for legitimacy.

Posted by: | January 08, 2005 at 07:44 PM

Mr. Webern:

If your argument were pertinent and your points were applicable-- even to your own hypothesis-- I would respond. But you make no case.

Testicular self examination? Good God...what is the point of that example?!

Oh..Ok, I'll give you ONE slam. Can you not see the difference in the varying legitimacy of PROCEDURES, which are borne on the weight of available data and its interpretation (and weeded out the same way) and the nonempirical, even specious underpinings of an entire discipline?

Whatever its faults, medicine is an empirical science. Chiropractery is a fraud. A fake. An entire discipline based on a single unproven procedure.

My house IS in order. Proven just by the very fact that bad procedures get weeded out. If we weeded out the bad procedure in chiropractery you'd be left with a ... salesman??

Posted by: CodeBlueBlogMD | January 08, 2005 at 10:48 PM

TSE is an excellent example--doctors continue to advocate it, yet the only study on its effectiveness in prevent/detecting disease or lowering mortality rates found that it had NONE. Actual medical practice is far from your described ideal of proceeding directly from empirical fact. It has much more to do with medical culture and doctor's hunches and intuition than doctors, as prudent professionals, would admit.

Yr second point. It may be that chiropractery is a fraud, but does that help yr position? To the contrary, wouldn't placing chiropractery in a broader academic setting make it face at least marginally more empirical scrutiny than it currently does in its self-contained schools?

Consider the history of Freudian analysis. Certainly THAT is as much snake oil as chiropractery, yet interestingly not so long ago medical psychiatry embraced it--from the late 1940s to mid-60s it was dominant in medical psychiatry. (I suppose, Dr. Blue, that was an example of your description of medicine proceeding from careful empirical study--ha, ha, ha!!! Get your own house in order, indeed!)

Freudianism's eventual downfall came NOT from the medical profession, but from the academic departments of psychology--which studied it empirically and found it lacking--or at least more lacking than other approaches. Perhaps the same thing will happen at FSU. O ye of little faith!

Give the people what they want--and

Posted by: Tony Webern | January 09, 2005 at 01:39 AM

This is not any more about giving people what they want than it is about the economic conflicts between physicians and chiropractors. Individuals can still choose a chiropractor even if FSU does not open the first academic and research program in the field affiliated with a public research research university. In fact, if the issue is giving people what they want, there are some serious issues about the way in which special interests associated with chiropractors rammed the FSU appropriation through the Florida legislature with no debate at all and a very questionable need study. It clearly is not what people in Florida would want. 5 newspapers in Florida have published op/eds against FSU adopting the program -- but none of them opined on the use of a chiropractor if that is what an individual chooses to do.

Posted by: FSUblius | January 09, 2005 at 01:13 PM

Did medicine not begin as quackery? Did it not receive state sponsorship even before good peer review and evidence based medicine was being practiced?

Would medicine have flourished in the manner it has had it not been for federal/state/local institutions? I don't know.

Could chiropractics flourish and develop their "science" with federal funds and peer reviewed experimentation? Maybe. Maybe not--that's why you do the experiments.

But I have to agree with FSUblius on this one, is it what the people of Florida want? Beats me...I live in South Carolina. ;-)

Posted by: Jeremy | January 09, 2005 at 01:44 PM

http://sciencepolitics.blogspot.com/2005/01/next-tangled-bank.html

Posted by: coturnix | January 11, 2005 at 01:39 AM

I did not say medicine began with empiricism and moved forward from there; my contention is that it is subjected to empirical review by set standards. If chiropractery did the same we woukldn't be having this discussion.

In a time of concern about medical costs the last thing we need to do is to BEGIN state sponsorship of a field that is grounded on (and has never moved forward from) the teleological assupmtions of an amature nineteenth century kook.

Posted by: CodeBlueBlogMD | January 11, 2005 at 05:10 AM

Great information. You are really true in what you said. If you get a chance, you can check out my blog on chiropractic schools
at http://www.chiropracticschoolscenter.com.

Adam Butler
http://www.chiropracticschoolscenter.com

Posted by: Adam Butler | February 05, 2006 at 02:05 AM

I can't resist appreciating the owners of this blog. Good information. Well Done.

Peter Nichols
http://www.chiropracticschoolscenter.com

Posted by: Peter Nichols | May 05, 2006 at 08:56 AM

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