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« CSI MEDBLOGS: DOES TERRI SCHIAVO HAVE HYDROCEPHALUS? | Main | Terri Schiavo and The Living Will: We Will Never Swallow The Same Again »

Comments

rs

Do a CT scan and MRI-she doesn't need a PEG tube for those non-invasive procedures.Then when they confirm what we know-there is no "Terry" inside that poor creatures body,let's butt out.I'm sure the pretty young woman I've seen in photographs would have been apalled to know how she'd appear on our TVs 15 years later.Why is it so hard to believe she discussed her code status with her husband and not her parents-ask your married friends,co-workers,patients-who do they share the intimate details & desires of their lives with?As for Michael-probably no saint,but the attempts to villify the poor bastard are shameful-I hope my life never gets dissected by self righteous hypocrites like Tom Delay&Dr.Bill Frist.

rs, read the court record. She made a casual remark about ventilators at a barbecue. There was no "discussion of her code status". Believe me, if there was no "Terri" there, I'd be first on Michael Schiavo's side. Unfortunately, this woman hasn't had any testing done since 2002. The fact that MS has refused testing, leads to suspicions and doubts of his sincerity in my mind. If there's reasonable doubt, don't pull the feeding tube out.

Scott Chaffin

Actually, lots and lots of people have been asking the questions for some time. And they've all been written off as Christian nutjob right-to-lifers and not worthy of attention. Nice to have a doctor with no apparent dog in the hunt weighing in.

joe bob

I'm so glad all you doctors and forensic experts have figured this all out. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves. That kind of "certainty" is nothing more than complete arrogance.

Oh for petes sake, joe bob. Since when is it "arrogance", to examine information and question purported "facts". It's "ignorance" to assume that everything you read and hear through media sources is "true".

maggie4life

Since I am neither a doctor or an American citizen I probably should not be saying anything. I can get as emotive on this subject as the next person.

I think that the doctor on this site has made a good case for what he is saying and for asking questions about what really happened.

I saw a comment that Terri was treated with Keflex for arthritis. That is not correct from my understanding of her medical record, and perhaps a little bit of a projection of my own background. An anti-inflammatory is used when someone is suffering an inflammation which can be caused by something other than arthritis. For example, when I fractured and dislocated my coccyx back in 1976 I was treated with an anti-inflammatory drug. I did not have arthritis at the time.

Second, I noticed the comment about the potassim level and the alleged bulimia. The medical record indicates that at the same time as Terri had a low potassium level she also had a high glucose level. I did a search relating to the potassium level, glucose level and bulimia. What I discovered made me doubt that Terri was in fact bulimic.

Third, this does not explain why, when Terri was admitted to hospital that she had a stiff neck. This is the aspect that needs immediate and further attention. What caused the stiff neck?

Based on the evidence that I have seen so far, and I am not an expert in this field, I have serious doubts about the bulimia aspect in this case. There is a possible reason to believe that someone attempted to strangle Terri on the night that she collapsed. We do not even know in what order the attempt might have happened. Being found on the bathroom floor is not an indication that she was bulimic. It could be an indication that she was so knocked about in an earlier fight that she felt sick and went to the bathroom and then fainted, or it could be that someone bashed her head against the bath.

For your information if someone's head has been smashed into the bath, then that person could in all likelihood suffer the kind of injuries that have shown up in Terri. Yes, I do know a medical person who was bashed by her ex-husband in this way and she continues to have a neck plus other problems.

This is all speculation on my part. I am putting it up for consideration.

DrTony

Elizabeth, the concept that the brain can rewire itself is accurate. The analogy to electrical wiring can help you to understand. The brain cannot use material that has been destroyed and does not install new "wires" but can recruit areas of the brain that weren't damaged to replace some of the function of the part of the brain that was damaged.

However, as you would not choose to rewire part of your house that your were not using, the brain will not rewire to replace function that is not used. A newborn baby's brain is constantly adapting to the demands placed on it. For example, once the baby leaves the womb, it is functionally blind. It's been living in the dark and the brain hasn't made any significant investment in the optical center. However, when challenged by input from the optic nerves (the eyes) the brain rapidly adapts and "rewires" to see.

In the case of a stroke victim, for example, with loss of function of a muscle group, the brain may "rewire" to allow for use of those muscles, but only if challenged. All reports indicate that Michael would not allow Terri to participate in physical therapy. Without this therapy and the challenges it presents, it is almost impossible that Terri would have shown any improvement.

We don't know what improvement Terri may have made because her husband won't let anyone try.

DrTony

You are invited to read my additional posts on Terri at my blog. With credit to CBB, of course.

maximumbob

RE: "Well, MaxBob, soon you'll get your wish. She'll be dead and then there will be no way to examine or test her. How nice for you."

WTF? I don't even know who I'm responding to, but I WISH for the death of no person. However, I do think this case has validated the fact that many, many people agree that this poor woman would not wish to be forced to be kept alive in such a condition. In as much as she stated the fact, not perfectly & not in writing (which I hope ALL people will do - maybe as part of their 18th birthday right of passage) that she wished Not to live in such a condition, she never stated the alternative. I do think starvation is a bit barbaric & I'd favor euthanising Terry as an act of compassion.

We afford this to the most heinous members of our society, not legally considered cruel & unusual punishment. I'm not a proponent of the death penalty. To the contrary, I believe government has absolutley no place in determining the death an individual. This is not a moral position, but one that recognizes the inherent danger of a bureaucratic institution making error when it comes to the life or death of an individual who may or may not be guilty of a capital crime (see The Innocence Project for specifics)

There is no error here. All legislative intervention was thwarted by the judicial rule of law, dispite executive over-reaching. That's called checks & balances & it's nice to see that it works.

My wish would be that all persons make a deliberate, and written decree as to how they would like to be treated in similar circumstances. Advanced Directives are filled out by only 25% of the population (I can't source it, but I read it somewhere today) Just take the guess work out of it. If you want to live in a PVS with a feeding tube, knock yourself out. But don't leave the decision to those who it might end up destroying.

"many, many people agree that this poor woman would not wish to be forced to be kept alive in such a condition."

4. The 3 Schiavos and Greer's opinion. The other rulings were just rubberstamps over Greer's ruling. Hardly think that qualifies as "many, many people".

Maggie4life

Well I am going to weigh in on the comment that to starve to death is Terri's wish. If you have a look at the transcript of the last interview with Larry King, Michael Schiavo finally admitted to the truth. He does not know what she would want, it is what "we (Felos/Schiavo/Greer) want." You can find several references to this transcript, including on the site of "LiberalsforTerri). Considering that I am a conservative Catholic in my thinking, I have a lot of admiration for the "liberals" and the investigative work that they have completed on this issue. THEY ROCK.

There are a lot of reasons for disregarding Michael Schiavo's testimony. One of the reasons happens to be that he is lying through his teeth in nearly everything that he has stated. Again, there is evidence that was not permitted in the court that indicates that Terri was in fact responding to treatment. There are medical notes that prove that she was responding to her treatment. You can find them on WWW.Terrisfight.org. The reference to this site is just as reliable as the reference to Matt C's "Abstract Appeal". Another reason for disregarding the evidence of Michael Schiavo is that he is living with his concubine and they have two children. He will not divorce Terri because he wants her dead.

I do not like the way that the unjust judge George Greer is claiming to have absolute power of whether Terri is allowed to live or die. Since there is no conclusive proof that she ever expressed a wish that she would rather die than be in her current state, I believe that the testimony that was accepted should be seen for what it is: TAINTED. It is the testimony of a very ruthless and violent man, who has been lying and has committed a fraud by suing for compensation relating to Terri's condition.

For example, I have not seen strong proof that she was in fact bulimic. The combination of a blood reading of low potassium level plus high glucose levels is one that does not necessarily mean that she was bulimic. The other evidence that this was true has not been fully verified. Since I am not a doctor I can only rely upon what I am reading on the Internet and from what I have read so far, I am not satisfied with the idea that she was bulimic. That blood test result could have also been an indicator that her system had begun to shut down when someone was attempting to strangle her (the most likely reason for the sore neck). This result could happen as she was deprived of oxygen.

maximumbob

Last entry for this issue: Many, many people...
March 23, 2005 Gallop Poll http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/login.aspx?ci=15358
Majority Agrees With Judge's Decision in Schiavo Case
Few see hope for improvement in her condition if kept alive
by Jeffrey M. Jones
A slim majority of Americans agree with a federal judge's decision not to adjudicate the Terri Schiavo case -- denying her parents' request to re-insert the feeding tube helping to keep her alive, pending further legal action. Only a small percentage of Americans believe there is much of a chance for significant recovery for Schiavo if the feeding tube were permanently put in place. The public expresses sympathy for both Schiavo's parents and her husband, but is more sympathetic toward the parents. Americans take a negative view of actions of President Bush and the Republicans and Democrats in Congress in this case.

Definition of PVS & tube Vs Mouth

The ability to orally ingest food and water – to swallow substances other than saliva, is predicated on a level of cognitive capacity. Without cognitive capacity, the intentional act of oral nutrition and hydration is likely to lead to aspiration. Eating and drinking are not unconscious processes. Therefore, Theresa’s neurological status is directly linked to her ability to swallow.

The persistent vegetative state has been accepted as a formal diagnosis in modern American medical practice and it is recognized by American Academy of Neurology as:
The vegetative state is a clinical condition of complete unawareness of the self and the environment, accompanied by sleep-wake cycles, with either complete or partial preservation of hypothalmic and brain stem autonomic functions. In addition, patients in a vegetative state show no evidence of sustained, reproducible, purposeful, or voluntary behavioral responses to visual, auditory, tactile, or noxious stimuli; show no evidence of language comprehension or expression; have bowel and bladder incontinence; and have variably preserved cranial-nerve and spinal reflexes. We define persistent vegetative state as a vegetative state present one month after acute traumatic or nontraumatic brain injury, or lasting in least one month in patients with degenerative or metabolic disorders or developmental malformations.
The Multi-Society Task for on PVS, Medical Aspects of the Persistent Vegetative State, New England Journal of Medicine, 330:1499-1508, May 26, 1994.

In Re: Theresa Marie Schiavo, Incapacitated Report to Gov. Jeb Bush and the 6th Florida Judicial Circuit 1 December 2003 Jay Wolfson, as Guardian Ad Litem to Theresa Marie Schiavo Page 28 of 38

MaxBob, 3 Schiavos quoted a hearsay casual comment. A blind Judge agreed with them. Doesn't make it factual. It doesn't freakin' matter what the polls say. Get a clue. No one really knows what Terri wants now, or what she wanted then. Quit dodging the facts.

Do you really want public polls to decide the value of your life?

"Do you really want public polls to decide the value of your life?

Posted by: | March 25, 2005 01:25 AM"

That's the reason we live in a republic and not a democracy. Mob rule can be deadly.

Joe P.

The "domestic violence" [blame the man for everything under the sun] meme sure dies hard, doesn't it? Today on Court tv there was a trial shown in which a wife murdered her husband, who was trying to leave her, with a hatchet she had purchased within a day. Her defense was the "battered woman syndrome". She was the batterer.

Much b.s. was presented by some alleged "expert" who stated such whole cloth myths as, "one half of homeless women come from battering environments", as though they are virtually classic "battered women".[Lord, spare me, please!]

The term "domestic violence" is sexist via its propagandization through false statistics and fantasy mechanisms, perhaps drawn from some real anecdotal cases, but still anecdotal only, and always ignoring the acts of women. Real statistics show women are at least as physically aggressive as are men.

In addition the Violence Against Women Act is sexist, as much as a racist law is racist, in its presuppositions and spawn. It's due to sunset this year, and it should. It's supported by $3.5-5 billion in Federal money alone. No statistical benefit has ever been shown. Why would it be? Blaming males cannot work.

Joe P., what the heck are you blathering about? We don't know what happened to Terri, we are just examining whatever evidence there is on record. Chill.

Maggie4life

JoeP, the comments that you make have nothing at all to do with this case. That kind of comment is what is known as a diversionary tactic.

I agree that women do perpetrate violence in the home, and yes they also cause abuse in the workplace. However, that subject is not related to what happened to Theresa Schindler.

The facts of this particular case do point to the possibility that Theresa was abused by her husband on the night that she collapsed. What is worse than the physical abuse that she suffered is the mental torture of the last 15 years. Michael has refused to allow Theresa to have rehabilitation and therapy. There are reports available that indicate that Theresa was progressing prior to the court settlement. The setback came when Theresa did not win enough cash, and that seems to be the driving force behind Michael Schiavo and his Recovered Memory Syndrome.

There is a criminal desire to see Theresa dead, regardless of the method to achieve that objective. This woman's faithless husband wants her dead, and he is using a pro-euthanasia lawyer to push his agenda. The pro-euthanasia lawyer, George Felos, wants to win this case so that he can further his agenda to have generalized euthanasia recognized.

The unjust and blind judge who has been making these decisions with a possible underlying motive of having the fame of introducing generalized euthanasia into the USA. It is an effort to use the judiciary for activism.

When I look at the facts that have come to light, I see this in light of a plot between at least three players who have their own agenda. What they have done is use Theresa as the pawn in their game to get what they want by stealth. It is as if there has been some kind of private agreement that this woman must die so that these objectives will be achieved.

Most of all, what is shows is that the powers of the probate judge must be curbed in the future. He must not be allowed to preside over such unjust situations ever again. The elderly need to know that they are not going to be exploited by ruthless guardians. The same is true for those who have become physically or mentally incapacitated.

With regard to the evidence of Dr. Cranford, since he has an association with the Hemlock Society, he too has a clear cut goal of bringing in generalized euthanasia. It is in his interests, therefore to give the diagnosis that the client wants for the court case. Cranford has complied with the wishes of Felos and has testified that Theresa Schindler is PVS without an adequate consultation.

With regard to Jay Wolfson, I do not doubt his report at all. I am certain that whilst he was there, Terri was non-responsive. It is possible that someone interfered with Theresa prior to his visits so that she did in fact not have the ability to respond because of being heavily sedated. Keep in mind that it is Michael Schiavo who has been calling the shots concerning her medical treatment.

However, this still leaves the question open on what happened that night that she collapsed. Also it does not answer the question of what might have happened between the CT scans that showed no abnormality and the scan that indicated an abnormality.

I would like to propose that it is possible that her head was slammed into the edge of the bath as she struggled against her husband who was trying to strangle her. I would like to propose that this damage did not show up for a few days, thus leading to her deterioration into a coma. There are other possibilities but I wonder if it is possible for the injury to happen in the hospital, unless she was dropped off a gurney.

LibraryGryffon

Isn't it also the case with hyrdocephalus, that the pressure from the fluid can compress the grey matter to at least some extent, and when the pressure is removed, the tissue will expand? Not that this is necessarily the case here, and even if it was, I'd be very surprised if it was compressing everything we see missing here, but, again, wouldn't it be nice to know?

Curious JD

Just because the comment is "hearsay" doesn't make it unreliable. It is likely admissible under an exception to the hearsay rule.

Using the "it's hearsay" argument is silly. It's like arguing the evidence is "all circumstantial."

Curious, your statement make no sense. Just because hearsay is admitted, doesn't make it reliable. For the past 15 years, Judge Greer has consistently ruled against Terri's parents. Even to the point at times where he violates the Florida constitution himself. Just because Greer is a Judge, doesn't mean he is unbiased or uncorrupted.

Curious JD

Correct, but it doesn't make it unreliable either. But generally, the hearsay exceptions exist because in those situations there are some indicia of reliability.

And just because a judge rules against you or you disagree with his opinion, doesn't mean he is corrupt.

"And just because a judge rules against you or you disagree with his opinion, doesn't mean he is corrupt."

Read the court records of the case. The Shindlers got screwed for 15 years. Judge Greer is in the pocket of the Scientology lobby in Pinellas County. Another poor woman dehydrated to death in the care of her Scientology handlers. Greer did nothing.

http://lisamcpherson.org

Curious JD

They got screwed because the judge ruled against them? Everyone who loses says that. Now you're talking about Scientology? You're getting out there with the innuendo.

You make a much better case on the medicine.

At least you've given up on that silly "hearsay" argument.

Curious, have fun with the kool-aid. It's grape today!

Matt

When you can't come up with an intelligent response, put in a silly one.

Kudos to you.

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