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« THE PRESS BREAKS A JOINT | Main | CSI MEDBLOG: INVESTIGATING THE DEATH OF VICTORIA SNELGROVE--following up how BOSOX fan died... »

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Listed below are links to weblogs that reference CSI MEDBLOGS: HOW DID BOSOX FAN DIE?:

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Comments

Will

I posted a link to your page on my site as well... Hopefully the relevant parties can be informed of these counter-facts.

intrigue?

I heard in Sports Radio in Boston the day after the incident, and it was reported that a witness to the incident saw the girl drop after she was shot with the pepper ball, but her injury occurred after hitting her head after the fall.

Phelps

Here's some speculation -- first, Pepperball runs at a higher FPS than paintball. They crank them up to 350+. The ammunition is also a thicker plastic shell, over the gelatin shell of traditional paintballs. There is another stickler, thought -- there are different forms of pepperball ammunition. In particular, there is a solid, hard plastic dense ball designed for shattering glass. Given that your average pellet gun doesn't even shatter glass, this particular type of ammo is imparting a lot of force into whatever target it hits.

The Boston PD might have taken responsibility so quickly because they knew that it was because of user error on the part of the police, and they might have known that because the operator loaded the wrong kind of ammunition in the device. Like you said, that is something that should be in the autopsy, since they remnants of the ball should be there. There will be shell fragments if it was a proper one (I've been hit with enought paintballs to know that the shell goes everywhere when one breaks) or there will be a solid ball if it was a glass-breaker.

CBB MD

It's amazing how many people have theories on how this ballstrike might have killed this woman.

I'm telling you that if you stike the orbit with a baseball bat swung by Bobby Bonds you do not kill the person.

The mechanics of the orbit(that I have explained many times -- please read my posts) DOES NOT LEAD TO DEATH BY DIRECT TRAUMA.

Is it possible? Yes.

Is it likely? NO.

So, why hasn't the Boston Police, The press or the Brigham Hospital made clear HOW THIS GIRL DIED?

WHY HAVE THEY NOT?

Because she DID NOT die from a projectile-to-orbit mechanism.

And everyone is afreaid to talk.

peop[le keep asking ME more questions.

ASK THE BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL!!

Will

the preconcieved story is just easier to believe i guess

Paul Tempe

I cared for this woman in the ED at Boston's Brigham and Womens Hospital... The plastic paint/pepperball penetrated her globe, then the orbit and entered her brain. The plastic, bone and pepper detrius was devastating. She never had a chance and we all new her brain damage was catastophic.. long before she went to the ICU. An unlikely injury, maybe, an unlucky one, yes indeed.

Paul

b otto

The projectile is more than just a paintball. I guess paintball sounds less lethal.

The following is directly from the FN HERSTAL website,

The FN303 projectile is ''fin-stabilized," Mills said, which gives it more accuracy than a paintball gun.

The primary effect is trauma : the shock (15J/cm³) directly neutralizes the aggressor. Secondary effects will be delivered by a chemical payload chosen according to the mission requirements

All .68" projectiles have a 8.5g weight, a polystyrene body and a granular non-toxic bismuth forward payload

shauna

I'm no doc, thats for sure. I'm not even sure I understand half the words on this page. What i can answer are these questions...

Was she allergic to capsicum?
Torie had no known allergies.

Was she taking or using any other medications or substances?
No. Although she was of legal age...she had no alcohol or drugs (or medications) in her system. How do I know this you ask? Because I talked to her in the top of the 9th inning.


Did she have any preexisting illnesses or conditions?
No. Torie was a happy, healthy, life-loving 21 year old student.

I miss Torie so much... and it comforts me to know that there are people in the world wondering the same things that I am. I commend you for such a nice piece about such a wonderful and terribly missed friend.

~Shauna~

Mark

What happened to Victoria Snelgrove is a tragedy. It was reported in the Metro paper on May 3, 2005 that her family may sue the gun manufacturer. I don't think you can give the family enough money for what they have endured. Not that money is the issue as I'm sure they would rather have their daughter over any monetary settlement. What adds to the tragedy is the way they were manipulated when they recieved their settlement of $5.1 Million Dollars from the City Of Boston. If they sue the gun manufacturer and win, as per the settlement, they would have to give up to $2 Million Dollars to the City of Boston. This would be determined by how much they get. Why should the City of Boston get anything? They killed Victoria Snelgrove. Menino is a gem I'll tell you that.

One point of clarification: It isn't a NON-Lethal firearm; it's a LESS-Lethal firearm. The difference being that non-lethal means no death ever caused by the firearm whereas less-lethal means death can occur.

On a personal note......I'm a 41 year old die hard Red Sox fan. It took the Red Sox 86 years to win the World Series since their last win.

It means nothing to me because of this tragedy!!! I would rather "wait till next year" for the rest of my life rather than have what happened happen.

Sanctuary Safety

The Boston Police were actually NOT using what is known as a Pepper Ball. The projectile that was launched in this case actually was from the FN303 from FN Herstal whose projectiles contain bismuth (type of metal typically used for lethal projectiles) and slight amounts of liquid OC. Not at all like a paint ball. See them here http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/ll_303.htm

This can explain a lot.

Also see: http://www.policeone.com/police-products/less-lethal/projectiles-launchers/press-releases/93336/

And yes, the media definitely has a responsibility to get their facts straight before they release stories that seem to create more of a frenzy than necessary.

The incident, while tragic, was the result of the police using NON or LESS lethal weapons instead of lethal ones. Their use alone shows that the police were intent on protecting, not harming the public. The tragic accident was just that - a tragic accident. Not a malicious act on the part of the Boston Police department in order to cause harm and create frenzy. This is not, however, the way it was portrayed by the media.

anonymous coward

I know this thread is old, but has anyone considered that she may have been allergic to the chemical? I read several articles that claimed it was "peper spray like" chemical, and not capisin. oh but forget that... As much as everyone wants to debate this and make it a liberal media blaming people or a conservative coverup, the probable truth is much more boring than that: The autopsy was inconclusive. The police and the city know they were responsible for killing her, but it may or may not have been criminal.
Now as we all see form the latest news, they've settled. The end

Thomas Foley

As an 8 year Bail Enforcement Agent, With vast experience in airgun applications, I must say, that deployment of such projectiles should never be commenced against a human target,unless that human target is the sole recipiant of justified force. In laymen's terms, never fire into a crowd unless each crowd member can be demmed a justified target. T.Foley, U.S.B.E.A

George R.

Since pepper spray has been chosen the lesser weapon for use of force, are there any studies or know cases where pepper spray has been linked to causing cataracts at a later point after being exposed to the spry numerous times.

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